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28 January 2012 @ 04:07 pm
Kradam big bang is here!  
Okay, so for kradambigbang, I've decided on a Buffy crossover set after Chosen where Buffy asks Kris to work for the new Council and be a Watcher. (And since I've only read a few issues of season 8, I'm pretending it doesn't exist.)

I've already got an idea of how I want Kris and Buffy to know each other since I actually started planning this out for a charity fic that I started but I'm always open to ideas if you've got them. ^_^ But basically, I've been working with the outline that Kris and his family moved to Los Angeles when he was going to start high school and so Kris knows Buffy from Hemery High. I don't want him being some new version of Pike though and since I have all sorts of fun making Kris psychic or whatever, I'm thinking more along those lines. Like he knew she wasn't crazy or lying about the vampires when she burned down the gym because, sometimes, Kris just knows things. So he let her know that he didn't think she was crazy and they ended up keeping in touch, to keep it down to the basics.

But I seriously can't think of how I want to bring Adam in on this. Part of me would love to play with regular guy Adam meeting who he thinks is just regular guy Kris. But then Kris is always getting calls from these girls and, you know what, it's really not fun getting death threats from girls that probably aren't even out of high school over what they'll do to you if you hurt Kris. And Kris is just facepalming over the fact that the Slayers he works with have no issues threatening people and, hell, how does he explain the slime and that one time when Vi burst in the room and declared that demons that exploded were the worst or the fact that one of the younger girls threatened to rip off Adam's arms if he was a meanie and dear God, don't tell Kris if that's a G'vrafolok demon headed their way because he just doesn't know if he can handle it right now, okay?

But, see, again, I have no idea on if I want to go with that or do something else.

So consider this a place to help me figure it out because I have so many ideas and I want to get this sucker done on time because I usually have to scramble to get everything in on time and, damn it, not this year. I'm determined!

So, brainstorm in the comments, make suggestions or even just give opinions! :D
Feeling: workingworking
Shane: [RP] Kradam glomp!havemy_heart on January 29th, 2012 04:48 am (UTC)
I love your idea of Kris and how he knows Buffy. If Adam wasn't a regular guy, what could he be? And does he find out about Kris and Buffy's world or is he just weirded out by these people?

What you have here sounds like fun, in any case :)
fictionfreak15: we are kradamfictionfreak15 on January 29th, 2012 11:49 am (UTC)
If only Kradam really had been on that show, you know I wouldn't have missed an ep LOL!!! I am IN LOVE with your idea to make Kris psychic! He's such a sweetie anyway, and I bet he makes a great watcher. Sure wish I had some good brainstorming for you, but since I only caught the show every once in a while, I would probably sound dumb with suggestions, but who cares? I like your ideas, tho, you know? That show was usually a great mix of drama and comedy, so if Adam had nothing to do with the paranormal, then he would have lots of opportunities to raise eyebrows when shit goes down LOL

Then there's the obvious that I'm sure you've already thought of and probably hate the idea LOL Adam is a vampire who hates slayers but thinks he might be in love with one of their watchers :/ Eh, whatever it is, I'll read it.

Good luck! I know you can do something great! Muah!
sweet baby jesus: buffy} picturewallmoirariordan on January 30th, 2012 12:26 am (UTC)
part one, people, this is only part one
okay, all right. let's do this. i'm so ready for this.

first of all, don't feel obligated to take any of this into account because i'm basically about to give you this really long explanation of how i would write this story, which i'm not, so do whatever you want to do, miss writer.

first - kris and his connection to the scoobies. honestly, it doesn't make a whole lot of realistic sense for him to be connected to buffy in the way you described, because it's too much of a stretch. like, i feel like it's going too far back into canon, you know? buffy isn't going to bring just anybody in on the council after all the trouble she had with the original watchers, not to mention that we know from angel season 5 canon that she's become very, very cautious and paranoid (she doesn't even trust angel, and that's just based on information she's heard about him secondhand). so for her to bring kris into her confidence on that level implies a high amount of trust and for someone she's just kept in touch with since high school? that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. he would've had to have been a larger influence on her life, so you'd have to rewrite a large amount of canon and that's ridiculous to do when you're writing a post-canon story. (and also, in my opinion, when you do that it takes a huge chuck out of the reality of your story, especially for fans familiar with the canon, since you're asking them to ignore or re-present a huge part of the story in their heads. when you're doing a crossover, best to merge them as seamlessly as possible so that the reader isn't distracted by trying to keep what's same/different straight in their head while they're reading, if that makes sense.)

so. i have an alternate proposition for you - what if, yes, kris and buffy when to hemery together. but instead of him being this large, unforseen influence on her life to the point where she brings him in on the council, what if he's brought in a different way? like a way that forces both of their hands so that he's involved whether they like it or not?

say kris knows the drill about vampires and everything. he's lived in LA for most of buffy/angel-canon, which means he's been through the jasmine apocalypse and, if he's kept his ear to the ground, means he's been at least aware of angel's activities. when the show down with the senior partners happens, he's still in the city - and realistically, how would kris fight evil? not like angel or buffy would - he'd use his strengths, and his strengths probably aren't ninja-like. his greatest strength would be his compassion.

so. what if he works for anne? which would totally make sense because if you trace anne's origins all the way back to her first appearance in canon in season two's "lie to me." she was a part of ford's vampire cult, and since buffy and ford went to hemery together, it's plausible that anne is an alumni as well. so kris probably knew both of them, and so having him work with anne in LA after she gets her shit together would be virtually perfect - he's got that connection to buffy, but he's a small enough part of her life that it'd be plausible why he never showed up before, or why buffy's never made any mention of him. and since gunn knows and has worked with anne before, kris has that connection to angel as well, and would definitely be aware of the happenings in LA. also, it makes sense characterization-wise, because if kris knew about the evil forces that exist in the world, there's no way he wouldn't help, and charity would definitely be the way he'd go about it. if you really want to make him a watcher, you can also make that work going from this theory as well.
sweet baby jesusmoirariordan on January 30th, 2012 12:26 am (UTC)
part two, let's do this
so: plot. number one, i don't know if you have one, or if you just have the situational details right now, but one good idea would be to jump off the events of angel's series finale. since it's the last bit of canon we saw, that's effectively the jumping-off point anyway, and if you go with the idea of kris working for anne, it makes more sense anyway since kris would be in the thick of the two major battles that frame angel's last season - the mess with jasmine, and then the battle against the senior partners.

so from there, you can do pretty much anything you want. i think your first decision to make is how to fit adam into the equation. my recommendation is to make him a part of the same world, but in a different way. not a vampire - people will expect that, and besides that story's been told a thousand different ways already, so unless you have a way to make it new again, it's not even worth it. but some other part of the joss-verse that will allow you to tell a really exciting, refreshing story. what i would do? make him a vengeance demon. that way you'd have another small connection to the scoobies (through anya) but not big enough so that people are wondering why he's never shown up before. it also gives you lots of options as far as actual plots go.

if he's a vengeance demon, then it would make sense for him to emerge post-canon, after the deaths of anya and halfrek, to pick up the slack, so to speak. you could introduce him by having him wreak vengeance for somebody in canon - a more minor character that kris would be acquainted with, for instance (dawn? connor? anne? one of the potentials? not angel, buffy, spike, giles, etc. - they'd all be too smart to fall for it) and have that vengeance affect kris in some way, so that he'd be determined to reverse it somehow. and you have lots of really cool options for this - depending on who you decide to have the spell be for. and you can be really creative - and be able to decide what kind of story it will be based on what kind of spell it is, since that'd be your main conflict. you also have lots of room to sketch out the relationship between adam and kris - since adam is, yes, a demon, and immortal, and probably been around since like, 90 B.C.E. or whatever, that will make their dynamic really interesting. but you also have that little loophole where - yes, he is a demon, but he's not an evil demon, exactly.

(which leads to my own personal headcanon about vengeance demons, because they have to work for the powers that be, it just makes so much sense. not even mentioning the similarity in their "employee" structure to how angel/cordelia/etc. were treated by the powers, it just seems obvious to me that vengeance demons would be employed by the powers to keep the balance, especially with all the canon from angel on how the powers work and their real motivations. we know they're not good or bad, but they just are, and exist to keep the world balanced, so of course we have to assume that they orchestrate as much evil in the world as they do good. vengeance demons exist in that grey area between good and evil - in that, they don't do evil deliberately, but they don't do good deliberately, either. they are, literally, creatures devoted to evening balances, and the only thing that separates them from the real good guys is just the fact that they punish the guilty rather than protect the innocent. that divide would define a lot between vengeance demon!adam and white hat!kris and it'd be super interesting to play around with that.)
sweet baby jesus: ats} cordywhatmoirariordan on January 30th, 2012 12:26 am (UTC)
part three, take a seat
and since it's canon that vengeance demons can create alternate realities, there are SO MANY MORE OPTIONS. what if adam wreaks vengeance for someone of kris's acquaintance, and in doing so creates an AU. then, the AU!kris would probably work to reverse that vengeance, much like AU!giles did in buffy season three's "the wish." what if adam, living in that AU, fell in love with AU!kris, and allowed him to reverse the vengeance, knowing that in doing so, he would become mortal? then if you open up the story from kris's POV, after all this has happened, adam is a former demon, now made mortal, who is in love with a kris who has no idea who or what he is (since kris wouldn't remember anything from the AU, since he wasn't the person who made the wish). it's a greek tragedy that freaking writes itself. he gave up his powers for kris? knowing that kris won't remember him afterwards? omg, my ovaries shake just thinking about it.

if you keep him human, then he needs to be someone with influence and/or power, because the worst thing in the world is a story where the two love interests are unequal, power wise (which they totally would be if adam was just like, some guy and didn't know anything about anything before he met kris). so if he's a human, what if he's a lawyer for wolfram & hart? say he turned coat during the final battle against the senior partners, and he went to kris and anne for help, knowing that they wouldn't turn anyone away, no matter what their suspected allegiances are. and if you want to assume that most everybody makes it through the battle alive (apart from gunn, wes and absentee lorne, sadface) adam would be pretty nervous about getting caught by angel, spike, illyria or connor after that. as well as the evil bads who he just betrayed. and you know kris would help him because he's totally that guy who likes the villains in disney movies and always insists that they're just misunderstood, really.

(this also would make characterization sense for adam, imo, especially if you arrange it so he didn't quite know what he was signing up for when he joined up for W&H, and if he was low enough in the ranks it'd make sense why he never would've shown up in angel's season five.)

allllso, another option is the initiative. we know that they've continued to operate post-buffy season four, from riley's appearance in season six. we allllso know that ethan rayne's last appearance was connected to the initiative. so, connect the dots, what if adam is an apprentice of ethan's, who after his abduction by the initiative, spends years tracking him down and getting him out of custody? and when they make their escape, giles is notified? so since ethan rayne was always kind of a harmony-level kind of villain (funny most of the time, except for those few lucky instances where she did manage to get someone into real trouble) giles probably wouldn't even bother to track the guy down himself. he'd probably send someone else to do it. like a contact he knows in LA, maybe through angel? maybe someone who has experience in third-world countries where ethan rayne and his apprentice might be hiding? maybe someone who could take some real firepower with him (ILLYRIA!) to help him out? you see where i'm going with this. don't tell me that you don't want to write a buddy cop fic with kris and illyria hunting down Big Bad Sorcerer Adam, who turns out to be this really sweet guy who just wanted to rescue his hapless uncle ethan. they could report back to angel in LA! and angel could be all confused and ridiculous, like, "uh, are you sure he's not evil? i mean, he seems really evil," and kris would be, "pretty sure you seem really evil a lot, dude," and illyria'd be like "i do not understand what the term 'rimming' refers to, is it a sport of some kind?" but then the initiative would show up and that's when shit would get real, since the initiative always fucks things up.

ima end this before i end up writing a novel but you get the idea. you have SO MANY OPTIONS. and btw i am so ready to beta this with you. it's so much fun, and i have so many ideas, and i can talk buffy FOREVERRRRRR and i don't even have to write it! woot!
Nicole: Buffy in sunglassesblue_icy_rose on January 30th, 2012 04:47 am (UTC)
Re: part three, take a seat
I'm just replying to the one comment, lol. It's easier.

First, yes, thank you for pointing all of that out for what I was thinking for Kris. I'm able to make it work for the other story because that one doesn't have anything to do with Kris starting to work with the Council or anything like that, it's just him calling Buffy for help because, of course, his house is like evil or something. But, you're right, once Buffy and co. took over and started a new Council, she'd be much more cautious about who was brought in, especially with the way she didn't trust Angel by season 5. The other fic doesn't really require her to trust him in regards to the new girls, etc. She just needs to remember him as a friend that she's willing to help out when his house tries to kill him and his roommate, Adam.

That being said, I love the idea that he started working with Anne. It works really well because Kris was never going to be this guy that could suddenly kick major ass. So the idea that he chooses to fight by making sure the kids are prepared and making sure that they're safe is completely awesome to me. I still love the idea of watcher!Kris but, like you said, that can still be worked with. Like they need people in LA and after some serious checking that Kris is a good person for the job, he could be asked offered a job but he could also still keep his job working with Anne at the shelter. I feel like he'd want to help but he wouldn't want to give up what he was already doing.

Haha, I love that you know that I don't want Adam as a vampire. It's always the way people go for a Buffy crossover, which is fine, but I wanted something different. And I couldn't for the life of me think of a way that I wanted to actually do it since I've got a vampire!Adam fic and I've done werewolf!Adam fic before too. But vengeance demon!Adam is sort of amazingly awesome and I love it. That plot, holy shit, tragedy! But still, I love it! (OMG, I love the buddy cop idea too, lmao. That'd be all sorts of hilarious.) I'm sitting here and trying to think of wishes that could be made that would cause bad enough results that Kris would actually want to reverse it and, damn it, possibilities. *taps fingers and tries to focus*

Plus, I've got the same view on vengeance demons that you've laid out so it definitely works. (Or, excuse me, justice demons as Halfrek pointed out.) After all, they really just push you to make a wish - Anya just happened to be in the line of business where people wish horrible and painful things on people. But so often the wishes can be twisted or they have all these consequences that you never realize and then BAM! Chaos.

Anyway! Basically, I'm pretty sure that's my favorite and it kicks the ass of all the ideas I was thinking of and YAY on someone who can talk Buffy forever. LOL, I love just sitting and talking about Buffy. So, yes, I'd love that! (Either way, you're getting such a shout out once this sucker is done, lol. )

*goes back to thinking who would make the wish and what it'd be*
sweet baby jesus: ai} alone in the darkmoirariordan on January 30th, 2012 09:02 am (UTC)
Re: part three, take a seat
right? it works out perfectly. because kris would still be a watcher, in a way. just a different kind of watcher. and a much more effective one than anything the real watchers did, anyway.

yah, the vengeance demon plot is just delicious. i've been rolling that one around in my head practically since i first saw the episode. YOU CAN HAVE IT. do it so i don't have to write it, lol.

no you could make it so cool, though. especially if you write from kris's POV so the reader discovers what's going on at the same rate that kris does. it would be so freaking awesome.

as far as wishes go, man, you could do almost anything. if you wanted to go dark you could make it like - someone wishes that their loved one had never died, and in fulfilling that wish adam makes it so the first won the battle at sunnydale, or something like that. or you could make it more personal - something that affects the people that kris knows negatively. like someone's dead and the other one's crazy and the other one is poor and only has one arm, like cordelia's wish in "birthday." it's really however you want to play it - but whatever it is is going to have to be at least, kind of dark, otherwise why would AU!kris work so hard to reverse it? plus, c'mon, it's a buffy crossover.

and as far as who makes it, if you wanted to go OC, you totally could. because you're going to need some OCs anyway, since kris is on the periphery of canon and so he's not going to be hobknobbing with angel and co. anyway. kids at the shelter, other employees, etc. you could pepper in canon characters, but the best way to do that is sparingly so that it doesn't seem over the top, you know? so like - giles makes an appearance here, a mention of what gunn or illyria is doing there, etc. the potential slayers - now, real slayers - are your best bet, i think. because what kris is doing for buffy is helping train slayers? cuz think about it - every potential suddenly becomes a slayer? they have got to be in over their heads - and there have got to be so many that they can't even keep up. there's also got to be lots of explosive situations like we saw with dana - girls who really just can't handle it. so of course they would employ whoever they could, people living all over the world, to help handle the influx. kris and anne could totally be the LA branch.

so say it's a potential that makes the wish - you could make up a really cool OC and really take it wherever you want. i think your best bet is for the wish to alter canon in some way, though - probably through that last battle with the senior partners. some wish that your character makes that alters events in such a way that it fucks over the city. because we know from canon that vengeance demons can fulfill wishes without making AUs (that snake-creature thing that anya created, for instance) - so it must be only wishes that are big enough that create AUs. like cordy wishing buffy'd never come to sunnydale - that was big. whereas some girl wishing her boyfriend into a snake - not that big. you know? so whatever your wish is has to be big.

i am so excited for you. this is going to be AWESOME.
Nicole: Kris profileblue_icy_rose on January 31st, 2012 03:35 am (UTC)
Re: part three, take a seat
Yeeeeeeeeeees, exactly! So much fun to have Kris slowly figure it out and then realize that the hot guy he's been seeing is the one who did this because he's a vengeance demon.

I actually had been thinking of that very wish actually! I was thinking that Gunn would wish something along the lines that he never had to stake his sister and in his mind, he's thinking that means that she was never a vamp but Adam grants it and Gunn never staked his sister but she still became a vampire so chaos. Because maybe she does manage to turn Gunn and there's one person lost from the white hats. Or maybe she just kills him because she's still a new vamp after all, I can't imagine that every vampire just knows when to stop drinking but you never know. What I need to double check if I go in that direction is Gunn's lawyer knowledge. I remember that he pushed through the sarcophagus that caused Illyria to show up in exchange for getting a refresher on everything but I swear I thought that it started to fade even faster after that. If that's the case, then I figure he wouldn't really remember much about vengeance demons because they were never very high profile for W&H. And it can effect Kris because someone in his family ends up being killed by Gunn's sister (shit, I need to remember her name...Alona, wasn't it?) or Gunn or some other nasty that wouldn't be around if Gunn had staked her and joined up with Angel to kill the bad guys.

Oh yeah, potentials are definitely going to be part of this (after all, can't have a watcher and no slayers!) and there's so many things that can be done with them. Because they activated literally every single potential, no matter her age, so there's got to be chaos now. I mean, toddler slayers. Holy shit, that'd cause a lot of injuries before she learned control.

I also like the idea that something gets altered in that final battle - one little thing could change any of it though I keep going to Wes not dying and I can't figure how I'd spin that badly. But maybe Connor could accidentally make some wish that causes a serious shift in how that battle went. Like....oh hell, I don't know, lol. I definitely need to think about the wish. So many ideas and possibilities!

:D :D :D :D :D